Rebecca Payne
Hopping the Fence Transcript – #20, Rebecca Payne
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Hopping the Fence – S2E10: Rebecca Payne
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RC: Hello, I’m Rebecca Casalino, and this is Hopping the Fence, a podcast dedicated to talking to artists on the fringes of the Canadian art scene.
Rebecca Payne is a queer rural artist who is trained in painting, drawing and printmaking. They have an appreciation for banal and liminal spaces and practice sitting with fleeting moments that-- in one year, one day, one minute-- will pass and may never happen again the same way. Their current work explores transitional themes of experiencing loneliness, awkwardness, and the atmosphere within banal spaces.
Our conversation was recorded in Hamilton within Treaty 3 territory on the ancestral land of the Haudenosaunee and Anishinaabe nations under the Dish With One Spoon wampum agreement.
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RC: Hey Rebecca!
RP: Hey, how's it goin' Rebecca?
RC: Good thanks. Where are you right now?
RP: I'm in rural Ontario, just chilling in my room right now. I have my mood lighting on –
RC: Nice.
RP: - including my favourite yellow lamp, which I feature in a lot of my drawings.
RC: Yeah, I want to talk I guess a bit about... we met at University of Guelph and the kinds of mediums you were doing then, how did you start out your artist practice?
RP: So yeah, I guess once I started out at University of Guelph, that's kind of when I started developing a practice more, and that initially started out with a lot of painting.
RC: Mhm.
RP: And then from there, since leaving University of Guelph, I've kind of gone back into...drawing, specifically with permanent markers, but drawing and painting a little bit more.
RC: I feel like permanent markers are so scary for people, but like, that's what I also use for a lot of my drawings. I use black permanent markers. I'm not as adventurous as you. But how did you start getting into drawing with markers?
RP: So I started into those mostly because I didn't really have access to a studio anymore, so I wanted to go into something that was really easy to pack up. And the nice thing about permanent marker being so bold, it…it just goes exactly where you want it.
RC: [Laughs].
RP: So yeah, I got into that because of just not having access to a studio space. But ended up really liking how bold all the different colours were and the kind of commitment that you have to use.
RC: Yeah, I think that's why I like it too. Like commitment, it almost feels like...I don't know if in drawing people told you to ever draw without an eraser, you know, make confident lines?
RP: Exactly. But also I recently discovered that since they're alcohol-based if you alcohol you can kind of make them go away. So it's actually not fully commitment anymore.
RC: Ahhh okay, I knew that for graffiti purposes. If I ever drew on a wall or a washable surface then the alcohol would, you know, eat away at it. Or like hand sanitizer. Do you use that on paper to erase?
RP: So I haven't used it for any work that I've shown, but for more personal work yeah. It turns it into a really cool watercolor effect.
RC: Oooh. Cool life hack. So you're developing techniques with these markers then?
RP: A little bit, a little bit. [Both laugh].
RC: I feel like you're... I look at these permanent marker drawings and they still feel like paintings to me. And I don't know why 'cause like, it looks like cross-hatching when you're filling everything in. But it does still feel very painterly. Do you feel like it's more you're drawing from painting techniques or drawing techniques when you're using the markers?
RP: Mmm. I would actually say that's fairly spot-on. My drawing practice now definitely stems from how I view... how I make paintings.
RC: Mhm.
RP: So sorry to say that in kind of a confusing way but yeah, basically the way that I'm thinking about layer and colours and building colours still comes from the same way that I would make a painting.
RC: Mhm.
RP: And the cross-hatching and stuff like that still very much comes from a drawing technique. But the way that I layer the colours is definitely how I'd use it in painting.
RC: Yeah it's so cool. And like, I guess for listeners too, we should probably talk a bit about your subject matter. 'Cause that's super important. Are you drawing what's around you all the time or is there some kind of conceptual backing to it? I'm just curious where your inspiration for these kind of subjects or still lifes come from.
RP: Yeah, these still lives do you come from around me throughout the day. I'd say that it kind of started from a point where I was really enjoying the lighting of certain setups.
RC: Mhm.
RP: And then also kind of taking into consideration... I really like still lifes. It's kind of like a diary for me, like what's going on throughout the day. And just a little setups that happen naturally. For instance, right now, the nightstand that's beside me, I have two mugs and a glass mug as well. So like, I might see that, like the lighting and the kind of composition that's there, that's been set up not purposely, like it's just kind of as it is, and just kind of go with that. To document something that's happened to me during the day.
RC: Yeah, so do you take a picture without rearranging anything? Or do you sit down with a sketchbook, or do you just go into the markers right away?
RP: Usually I'll snap a photo... usually because I don't have time to draw right then.
RC: For sure.
RP: I want to capture that moment specifically. I think there have been a few moments where I do draw from life, but for the most part it's from photo.
RC: And is that about capturing the light in that moment or capturing the composition, or kind of both?
RP: I'd say for me it is both of those things.
RC: Yeah like, the one that I'm looking at in my kitchen right now is like... it's so funny that you didn't know that I owned this tea kettle. I swear that we'd had a conversation about it. But another artist that I was talking to I guess also is obsessed with this tea kettle that you can buy... I can't remember what brand it is. But it's see through and goes blue when it's boiling and stops being blue when it's done.
RP: Mhm.
RC: So I got one of your... or did you send me this drawing? I can't remember.
RP: I sent it to you.
RC: I was so excited. So Rebecca sent me this drawing and it was like this beautiful blue glow coming from kettle and this hot pink background. And you're not the first artist that I've encountered that works with this tea kettle. I swore it was you that I chatted with, but it was someone else. So you're not the only person obsessed with tea kettle light. [Laughs].
RP: It's so fun I can understand why, [laughs].
RC: Yeah, so how do you approach that capturing of light process? I'm very much not a drawer, like colour scares the crap out of me. And you captured this tea kettle so well.
RP: I would say the markers specifically for the still life drawings with markers, they make it really easy because with the markers there's only a certain amount of colours that you can work with.
RC: Mhm.
RP: So the decision to go for more bold colours is already made for you.
RC: Mhm.
RP: So it's nice in that sense. And then a really boring answer... so I actually set up fun coloured lights all around the house.
RC: Nice.
RP: So basically since I'm around at all the time, it just kind of, I don't know.
RC: You've like, absorbed it? I totally understand. When I was doing my thesis, and I've posted some shots at my apartment, but my research was all about multiple making. And when I moved into my new apartment, nothing was hung up and I couldn't figure out why I couldn't write. And then as soon as I started installing all my multiples I could write again because it was like, around me, you know?
RP: Yeah, okay, yes. Yes, that makes sense.
RC: I think it really does matter what artist surround themselves with. That's why going into people's studios is so cool, you kind of get to see like a little snippet of their personality or their brain I think.
RP: Yeah for sure.
RC: But you set up your house like this on purpose? Or like, this is how you live in the day to day, you're just one of those people that have like seven light sources.
RP: Yeah. I...[laughs]. I love lamps.
RC: [Laughs].
RP: In my room right now, I think I currently have four lamps. And I would have more if not for my best friend talking me out of buying a few more. They all have fun coloured light bulbs so that I can set them to whatever mood I want the room to be in. And I think that makes it really nice for being interested in still lives because not only does it help looking at the same things every day in different light, but it also makes it more interesting for when I do choose to kind of depict the things that are already around me.
RC: Mhm, mhm. But I think it was Monet who painted the same hay stack at like every time of day and was like super obsessed with light. And then there's another artist that painted the same mountain, like same thing. Do you feel like your lamps are kind of that for you? Like a subject that you come back and revisit? Or is it more about the still life itself?
RP: I would say it's more so the subject matter.
RC: Mhm.
RP: But I definitely agree in the sense that different lighting can totally change the feeling of the entire thing.
RC: Yeah. You said the word "mood" too earlier. And I was wondering, do you set the mood with colours or are you responding to a mood that you already feel? How does that factor into when you're making these?
RP: I would say it's a bit of both. I think...'cause basically when I'm making art, since it's kind of in response to my day, my mood's always going to be a part of that.
RC: Mhm.
RP: Yeah, I dont' know. They're really tied together for me. 'Cause my mood is already brought into the art because that's what I'm feeling at the current time.
RC: Mhm.
RP: Typically I'm depicting... I will take a photo so I have a photo reference ‘cause the lighting also tends to change pretty frequently.
RC: Yeah.
RP: But I do try to make the art quickly as it's happening. So I feel like it's kind of symbiotic in that sense.
RC: That makes a lot of sense to me. Do you want to talk a bit about Laundrymatcowgrrl and how you came up with that name and that persona to work under?
RP: Yeah sure. I would say that the start of it for me was after I had graduated University of Guelph. Previously I had been making a lot of art that I was trying to be very vulnerable in, and it was kind of tied to a time where I had a series of a few traumatic events happen in my life and I wanted to figure out a way to still kind of be vulnerable and talk about the things that I wanted to talk about. Also kind of have a layer of separation so I didn't feel like I was putting myself out too, too much.
RC: Mhm, mhm.
RP: So that was like a really good way for me to explore emotions in a way...yeah. That I just didn't have to put myself out in the same way and had a little layer of separation. Makes it a lot easier to talk about with people that I don't know so well.
RC: Yeah. And do you think it's that idea of putting your art out there to strangers and how the audience responds, so that's why you needed the... do you call it like your... the only word I can think of is "nom de plume," which is the French writer version. Your...
RP: Like a...pen name?
RC: Pen name, but there's an artist word for it and I cannot think of it for the life of me. But like this alter ego. How did you come up with Laundrymatcowgrrl?
RP: So...for the name...this was kind of at a time when I was also coming to terms with my sexuality.
RC: As one does.
RP: As one does, especially after art school. Went in straight... [both laugh]. The laundrymat part kind of comes from... I was doing a lot of research on sexual identity, gender identity, and was coming across some really funny articles. And there was one that was kind of, I don't know how I come across this. I love going down wormholes.
RC: You gotta.
RP: I came across this article that was recommending different ways you could try to masturbate.
RC: Amazing.
RP: And one was humping towels, anything kind of like that. So that's where the laundrymat part kind of comes into.
RC: Oh, 'cause of like, the washers and the vibrating and the towels and things?
RP: Yeah. In combination with the fact that I used to be really bad at doing laundry because of depression. That's part of the combination there. And then the cowgrrl is reference to my southern rural Ontario upbringing.
RC: In Jonah's episode, I think he talks about being a gender outlaw. And I remember seeing like… I think it was you and Jonah and a couple of your friends posting "gender outlaw," "gender cowboy." And I just, I really loved that.
RP: [Laughs]. Oh my gosh, I do remember that. That's so funny.
RC: But that's where I thought your name came from. And I remember asking Jonah in our interview and we never really got into the nitty-gritty of it. I was wondering if you wanted to talk a little bit about being a gender outlaw and the cowgirl kind of persona?
RP: So yeah, I guess in that sense it was nice to kind of have the alter ego, 'cause I feel like I could kind of talk about things in more of a funny way. And then also having the cowgirl character to reference too, and being able to pull from things like outlaw, like my character gets to ride a horse instead of driving a car when they leave work.
RC: [Laughs].
RP: Like that.
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This week’s podcast recommendation is Sandy and Nora’s podcast Confronting systemic, institutional racism. In this episode, Sandy and Nora discuss how systemic racism operates within democratic structures and the need for renewal. They talk about the Green Party, the NDP and more broadly within the left.
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RC: And then you talked a bit about you needing this persona to kind of unlearn art school. What did you feel like you had to unlearn to get to your practice?
RP: So, the main thing that I wanted to unlearn was, I think the biggest thing that I took away from art school was that the language wasn't really that accessible to my family members, people that I had grown up with because maybe it's different when you grew up in the city and... I don't know, you have more access to art institutions and stuff like that?
RC: Mhm.
RP: But there's literally no art galleries, very small arts program. There's not a lot going on. So all of that academic art language, and even just art language sometimes is not really accessible to a lot of people. And I wanted... I wanted to make art that made sense to the people that I grew up around as well.
RC; Yeah, yeah. Your audience was totally different.
RP: So in a sense, I'm glad that I kind of learned what audience was in school. But then, the way that I was making art and how I thought I had to make art in school was not what I was meant to be doing.
RC: Yeah, yeah. And what do you mean by how you're meant to make art? For people who didn't have formal art school training. Like, I know exactly what you're talking about. [Laughs]. But I feel like... how many years ago did you graduate now?
RP: I graduated in 2018.
RC: Okay.
RP: So coming up to… is it four years? Oh my gosh. [Laughs].
RC: What is time?! What is time?!
RP: Ahh!
RC: But if you can remember that or speak to that a little bit, I think that would be helpful for like me as well.
RP: So yeah, art that I was meant to be making. So I feel that it's important to kind of make art that speaks to your community instead of make art in the language of academic institutions instead.
RC: Mhm.
RP: So when I mean art that I’m meant to make... just stuff that connects to the people that I'm around versus like, an art institution.
RC: Mhm, mhm. So do you think... you've shown in a couple different galleries like Button Arts Factory and other places... do you feel like artist-run centres like that are places where you can find your audience?
RP: Yes and no.
RC: Mhm.
RP: So yes in the sense that I think that they’re really good opportunities because there's so many people and artists that come through.
RC: Mhm.
RP: That you're kind of bound to meet some people that you're gonna click with or people that are gonna click with your art. And then the other side of that is there's so many people coming through, and maybe that's the small-town gal in me just talking, there's so many people that come through that sometimes it can be, from personal experience, kind of hard to also make those personal connections with people.
RC: Mhm.
RP: Versus just kind of like, I don't know... I don't know. It's really easy to fall back into talking like an academic artist I guess in any kind of area where you're showing art I guess.
RC: Yeah, and like, an area where you need an artist statement and a bio. Do you feel like you need to snap back into kinda academia mode?
RP: I have kind of put in work... so I haven't shown work for a while, so I would like to say that I don't fall back into that now...
RC: [Laughs].
RP: But yes. You kind of hit the nail on the head there, that's kind of where I meant to go with that. Any kind of place where they still require an artist statement and an artist bio, that's not going to be completely accessible for other people and I...like, if it's not accessible for other people who haven't gone to art school –
RC: Mhm.
RP: - I don't know if that's something I want to participate in.
RC: Yeah. So where do you feel like is a good place for you to show your art that can stay true? Do you feel like that's your online store and like, Instagram right now?
RP: I'd say in terms of the pandemic, probably yes right now.
RC: Yeah.
RP: One thing pre-pandemic I really loved, loved art markets.
RC: Mhm. I miss them!
RP: That's a really fun way to connect with people. I did a few pop-up shows. And I really love art pop-up shows. Although they're quite informal, it's nice to have the combo of a music house show.
RC: Mmm.
RP: And popping up as an arts vendor as well.
RC: Yeah. Did you help run Cole Road Projects or am I making that up in my brain?
RP: No, I didn't help run it. I just participated every year because I loved it.
RC: Same, well I only participated the one year 'cause I was only there one year, but I did also love it.
RP: Looking back, even though it's over four years ago, I can still remember those and I still love them.
RC: Saaame. I'm like, "That's where I want to go back to." You know?
RP: Mhm, yeah. I was actually just talking to my best friend about that too. We were just reflecting and remembering how nice that was.
RC: Reminiscing, yeah. And I feel like for me and you both, community has a lot to do with it. And seeing people and being in the same space with people we trust and love. How do you feel like your community's changed since graduating and since like, you know, becoming a full-time working person and an artist?
RP: Mhm, that's a tricky one. 'Cause I feel like in terms of art communities, I feel like I'm in a few-slash-also on my own in a sense because I'm out in the middle of nowhere. It's funny like, when I'm applying to opportunities, nothing's specifically for living in a rural area. So I feel like I'm kind of lying sometimes, being like, "I'm definitely in Waterloo Region."
RC: I swear!
RP: "I'm definitely in Guelph." I'm definitely in the GTA." "Sure, I live in Ontario." [Laughs].
RC: [Laughs], amazing.
RP: So in terms of community, yeah, Guelph, I met a lot of amazing people doing cool things. So it's really nice in the sense that, especially with Instagram and various platforms, it's been nice to stay in contact with people.
RC: Yeah.
RP: And see them really grow as emerging artists and people too. So it's still nice to stay in contact with everyone, but it feels like everyone's dispersed a little bit.
RC: Mhm, mhm.
RP: Especially with adding working into the picture.
RC: Yeah, working, though I feel like is kind of a source of inspiration for you. And I do the same thing. is How painting your workplace and using Costco as a subject, how has that changed your drawings and you're paintings?
RP: It's... [laughs]. It's a bit of a double-edged sword. Sometimes I hate that I've done this to myself.
RC: [Laughs].
RP: And then I go home and I think about work. I'm very much the kind of person that is like, I'm into work, I'm out of work, I don't think about it.
RC: Yeah.
RP: So sometimes I'm like, "Why have I done this to myself?"
RC: [Laughs].
RP: But it's also been fun to make work about my work.
RC: Mhm.
RP: Because I'm there all the time.
RC: Yeah.
RP: It's like the main thing that I do right now. So it's a little bit therapeutic. It lets me poke fun at a very mundane thing that I do.
RC: Mhm.
RP: So yeah, it's been fun for me in that sense.
RC: Yeah, I just recently started making work about working as a barista and all my minimum wage jobs. And yeah, you're right. It's super mundane. But I also think it's super relatable, and maybe that's a bit different than the fine arts approach. 'Cause like, traditionally if you're air quotes a “fine artist,” you're not also a barista, you're not also a cashier or whatever. But that is the reality for a lot of artists right now. So I feel like it's very honest of you to be like, "Yes, this is also my workplace." And then to make it fun like with the magnet, like, "Wish you were here." That's hilarious. [Both laugh].
RP: Thank you. [Laughs]. Yeah, I think it's...yeah it's been refreshing for myself at least, to have a little bit of honesty put into it.
RC: Mhm.
RP: And yeah, just kind of... I feel like a large part of my practice at least since leaving school is trying to figure out how to add different bits of honesty. So like, there's my series about Costco, there's my still life drawings. There's Laundrymatcowgrrl.
RC: Mhm.
RP: So I feel like those three separate things are kind of tied together by me trying to just provide some sort of honest insight.
RC: Yeah. And I was also wondering about your shop. I feel like I started really seeing you play with making multiples and wearables when you started doing those bleach shirts where you were like painting with bleach on these black tops. They were so good. But how has your practice changed now that you're making multiples and you have a shop set up on your website?
RP: So, all I can say is making multiples is really fun.
RC: [Laughs].
RP: I honestly, I don't think the appeal for it really clicked for me until recently. I was like, "Why would I make multiple of one thing when I could just make one thing?" I don't know.
RC: No it's great! Embrace the multiple!
RP: Yeah, multiples are so fun. How has it changed my art practice? I think it's fun for me because the little postcard that I've done it’s like, I feel commodified by work but how can I commodify it back?
RC: [Both laugh]. Yup.
RP: So I make this little postcard so I can make a little profit off of me having to go to work. [Both laugh].
RC: Exactly. Getting paid twice for the same gig.
RP: Exactly. Exactly. So I'd say in that sense, right now having multiples, since I'd say most of my multiples are about work, it's kind of coming from that place for me right now.
RC: Mmm.
RP: I'd have to see... I feel like I'm new to the multiples thing. So I'd have to see like how long term that changes my practice.
RC: Yeah.
RP: Yeah, commodifying things back.
RC: Mmm. I think that that's really cool. Definitely when I started making multiples, that was the kind of push behind it. And sometimes it's easy to get in the conceptual weeds, especially when you're doing research. But it kind of all comes back to that, as a screw you to the art world, the world, capitalism, you know?
RP: Mhm. Sometimes it's a little bit of a push and pull too... 'cause there's still like... sometimes there's still that little fine artist in me that's like, "Why are you putting up posters on your site? Post the original. Why do you need to hold on to the original?" But...[laughs].
RC: That's so funny. Do you think that's your painting background that is that little itch in your head being like, "Why you do this?"
RP: Yes. I think there's always been... even before art school, there's always been the little fine artist in me where I was like, "I'm only gonna do photorealistic pictures ever."
RC: Mmm.
RP: So I feel like it's kind of coming from that place. I've always had that in me. But also, that's the same person who made photorealistic paintings of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
RC: Ahh, amazing.
RP: [Laughs]. So who's gonna win out?
RC: Yo. My realistic, again air quotes, "realistic," I'm not a painter. I'm thinking back to high school when I was learning about transparent paints, we had to paint a still life of like, a bunch of squashes. And that's fully the extent of my experience. [Laughs].
RP: Honestly, I...[laughs]. Looking back, I love seeing high school realism.
RC: Ugh.
RP: The skill is good.
RC: Oh yes.
RP: Subject matter, love it. It's a little bit camp.
RC: It's so camp. I love it. So, you're one of those people that like, you can render realistically but choose not to then?
RP: I'm not sure if I am able to anymore, 'cause I don't do it enough.
RC: Mmm.
RP: But in the past, yes. Photorealism was my thing.
RC: That's so interesting. I always think about David Shrigley. He's also able to do that but instead makes really dumb drawings.
RP: Yeah.
RC: I really admire people like that. There's just some kind of honesty and vulnerability to the way he does mark-marking. And I think about the comic artist Ruby Etc, I don't know if you follow her, but she also kind of does the same thing. And I feel like it almost would tie back to your Laundrymatcowgrrl persona. 'Cause like, you have that little character that you draw pretty consistently. Is that how you picture that character?
RP: Yeah, I would say so in a similar way. One of the people that I really got a lot of inspiration from, their Instagram handle is @filthyratbag.
RC: I love Filthy Rat Bag!
RP: Yeah. Filthy Rat Bag. And honestly, I loved what's it called? Awards for Good Boys?
RC: Oh yes, that was a very lovely trend.
RP: Yes, I loved that trend. I think that I started seeing that... I came across that through Instagram, and that was also kind of around the time that I was making up Laundrymatcowgrrl and I was like, "Yes. I'm taking that energy and I'm putting it into Laundrymatcowgrrl."
RC: That's amazing. And those are some pretty strong trends of feminism in your work. How do you approach that? And I know like, I'm not talking about TERF-y feminism. I just want to…no TERFs allowed in my feminism. Is that kind of like a conceptual, political backing to your work?
RP: Indirectly yes.
RC: Yeah.
RP: But I feel like for Laundrymatcowgrrl, I kind of just want it to come from a place where if I'm making a piece of work that's complaining about something, it's just coming from the point where I'm complaining about something.
RC: Ahh.
RP: I don't want to read into it too too much.
RC: Yeah.
RP: But I think... Yeah. Yeah, I guess it would... like, they definitely still do have political implications as well.
RC: Mhm.
RP: I find a lot of the things that we complain about have political implications. [Both laugh].
RC: So I think vulnerability is a huge theme in your work. From showing your workplace to thinking about gender and also showing your own living space is quite vulnerable. How do you think about that when you're making and showing work?
RP: I just tried to stay honest with myself in terms of what I'm currently experiencing, what I'm currently thinking. In large part because I’m very much still figuring things out as I go.
RC: Mhm.
RP: That's probably just life. But it's nice for me to go back and reflect on. And then I also find that's relatable also, to just kind of share your life experience as it's happening and reflections that I make about it. I love when other people do that so I like to do that as well.
RC: Yeah, I feel like that's kind of what Filthy Ratbag and David Shrigley kind of do. What do you feel like is your spin on it, being who you are and where you are right now?
RP: Mmm, that's actually hard for me 'cause I find it's easier for me to reflect on things later.
RC: For sure.
RP: So I'd say more recently in the past, I definitely…like my Laundrymatcowgrrl comic especially had a very salty... [both laugh]. I think just salty is a good way to describe it. I'm trying to be more mature now, move away from that, [laughs]. So I'd say with my current stuff, especially since the pandemic started is kind of reflecting on things as they are, but almost in an idealized version.
RC: Mmm.
RP: Not necessarily just immediately because I'm in love with where I work and everything like that, but just kind of as a survival thing. Like, "Oh, it's not that bad."
RC: Yeah, yeah. It does feel very tongue-in-cheek.
RP: Mhm.
RC: Empty Costco counters and the big windows and then like, "Wish You Were Here" in this very tourist-y font. Like has that kind of... like instead of it being a beach, it's like, a big-box store, is funny. [Laughs].
RP: Yeah. I liked taking it one step further to the postcard as well because I find that Costco has also been kind of a congregation place for people to meet.
RC: For sure, for sure.
RP: Especially earlier, people were not allowed to hang out or be in groups and Costco was definitely a way around that. So you definitely see a lot of people catching up, hanging out, loving the ambiance.
RC: The ambiance.
RP: Me not really understanding why. [Laughs]. But yeah, it's kind of funny to take it one step further now that Costco has kind of been a cool hangout spot for people. People do like going there, [laughs].
RC: Okay. As someone who is from Oshawa, I moved to Guelph when we first got our Costco. I think literally the year that we got the Costco. And I'm not kidding you, it was the biggest deal in the whole world for Oshawa to get a Costco. It like, leveled up the city. And it's still a cool place for people to go. Like, people go with their parents because it's fun to go.
RP: I mean, I can't relate to that because I work there so the illusion is shattered for me. [Both laugh].
RC: That's what all my friends would say. I'd run into them working at the Costco and they'd be like, "This is a hellscape."
RP: [Laughs]. Yeah, it's... it is funny, like I love that for other people, no judgement. If you like going to Costco, I could see how that would be fun. But just being there and seeing the waves of people come through. For instance, I'm so stubborn about this. But if there's the slightest hint that the lineup at the Costco gas station, I will not go.
RC: Yeah, no. Can't do it.
RP: I will drive ten more minutes to go get gas somewhere else. I don't care. [Laughs].
RC: That's so funny. I worked as a barista in Toronto's distillery district, which everybody goes to for the Christmas market. And I'm not kidding you, whenever... to this day, whenever somebody says "Christmas market," I give them the dirtiest look in the whole world. And I'm like, "That is a hellscape for everybody that works there, I hope you tip well." [Laughs].
RP: Oh my gosh. Yeah I used to be a barista too, so I feel that as well.
RC: [Laughs].
RP: In that sense, sometimes it's kind of nice also being honest about showing my workplace. And it's not art for me.
RC: Yeah.
RP: The nice thing about not working in the art world is that... because I kind of depicts things in a salty way, it's nice not being salty about art because that's kind of still like an escape for me.
RC: Mmm, yeah. Do you feel like if you were an arts admin, that would change? Are you happy to be kinda...I find I'm happy to still be in the service industry in a weird way, 'Cause it gives me that level of removal. Or, if you could, would you be an arts admin human?
RP: That's tricky. I feel like I could be happy in either. I think I would just have to be a lot more intentional with where I'd be working in the arts field. Whereas if it's a job outside of art and I still have art to do on the side, or not even necessarily on the side. If I just have art to do that keeps me happy, it could kind of be any job, as long as it fits the certain standards of like... I need it to be this many hours, I need to feel respected by my coworkers, stuff like that.
RC: Mhm.
RP: But aside from that, I'm not as picky specifically about what the job itself is.
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RC: Thanks for listening to Hopping the Fence, a podcast dedicated to the fringes of the Canadian art scene.
If you have an artist that you would like to hear interviewed, would like to correct / fact check a past episode, or would like to chat, feel free to send me a message on Instagram @hoppingthefence, or by email at rebeccaecasalino@gmail.com. Thanks to the OCAD Student Union for your financial support. Thank you to all of our Patreons for your ongoing support. It truly does help me avoid burnout and keeps this podcast rolling. If you would like to support Hopping the Fence, please visit our Patreon to subscribe. Check out the show notes for more details. If you can’t donate, no worries. Thanks for taking the time to listen.
Audio editing for Hopping the Fence by Emily Reimer. Original artwork by Alex Gregory, and original music by Jessica Price Eisner.
Thank you so much, bye!
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