Maria Simmons
Hopping the Fence Transcript – BONUS EPISODE 1- Maria Simmons
[Intro music begins]
RC: Hello, I’m Rebecca Casalino, and this is Hopping the Fence, a podcast dedicated to talking to artists on the fringes of the Canadian art scene.
Maria Simmons is a hybrid artist from Hamilton, ON. She investigates potentialized environments through the creation of multidisciplinary sculpture and installation. Her work embraces contamination as an act of collaboration. She holds an MFA from the University of Waterloo and a BFA from McMaster University. She has recently exhibited at Xpace, The Plumb, Platform, Ed Video Media Art Centre, and the Hamilton Artist Inc.
Our conversation was recorded in Ohròn:wakon, or so-called Hamilton, Ontario, within Treaty 3 territory, on the land of the Haudenosaunee and Anishinaabe.
Welcome to this bonus episode of the podcast. Today’s episode features an ambient recording of Maria’s 2021 installation of her work Rat Plastic Wood. Enjoy!
[Intro music ends]
[Ambient recording plays and stops at 2:20]
RC: Hey Maria!
MS: Hi!
RC: How's it goin'?
MS: Good.
RC: Do you want to talk a little bit about where we are in person together?
MS: Yeah, [chuckles]. So we're in a building that was built in 1860.
RC: Oh shiiit.
MS: Yeah. So it's like... It's on the same property as an actual church, so there's a church sanctuary and everything and the building that we're in is more of a community centre that is connected to the other building by an underground tunnel.
RC: What!? Can I see the tunnel later?
MS: Of course you can [both laugh].
RC: Yeah, so if this recording's a bit echo-y it's because we're in full church vibes. How did you come to install the space?
MS: So I actually grew up at ending this church, so I went here pretty consistently until about a decade ago I stopped coming. But my family still has connections here so I was able to kind of call in those connections about a year ago when the pandemic first hit. I didn't have access to traditional studio spaces anymore.
RC: Yeah.
MS: So yeah, when that happened and I didn't have access to my current studio, I started working in this building because obviously no churches were meeting during the early months of the pandemic so I basically have this building more or less to myself.
RC: Yeah, and I feel like space is so important for installation and sculpture artists. Especially with your practice. How is it installing in this space versus your formal thesis which was in the University of Waterloo Art Gallery?
MS: Yeah, it was very different for a couple of different reasons. Installing it on my own within the space was incredibly difficult as opposed to with, you know, hired help of people who are actually art handlers and installers. Instead without any sort of infrastructure, it was like, me and my family. But yeah, being able to install it in this space there...I guess were just different parameters but a lot looser parameters. So more or less I was allowed to do whatever I wanted to do within this basement space.
RC: Yeah.
MS: So that was really quite freeing, to be able to... I guess also kind of self curate as well.
RC: Mmm.
MS: Deciding exactly where I wanted everything to be placed without any sort of exterior input, which is both very freeing but also... there's no feedback.
RC: Yeah.
MS: So going into it, it was like "Well, I don't... is this better? I don't know." It wasn't until I was like a week into the show that I was like, "Oh yeah, this is good."
RC: Yeah, yeah. And the basement itself is such a weird space. Was it all dirt floor when you first moved in there too?
MS: Yeah. So it was dirt floor up until about eight years ago.
RC: Oooh.
MS: When there used to be a wooden floor that was there. It still wasn't a functioning gymnasium at that point. I think it hasn't been a functioning gym for about 20 years or so.
RC: Mhm.
MS: But yeah, kind of with the dirt floor being there, it meant that I didn't have to haul in nearly as much dirt as I did for the first exhibition. And instead of having... yeah, in a traditional gallery space, I don't know, the area just kind of fades into the background and there's very clearly a piece, and this is like "This is the show," and everything else you kind of have to treat as white noise, it's not actually adding to anything. Whereas in this show, everything is kind of a part of it and nobody's quite sure like, "Did you add this? Is this your hole? Was this hole here?"
RC: Are these your creepy death basketball nets? Did you install them? That's so funny. This definitely feels like a wholesale installation. It really reminds me of Fastwürms work, I don't know if you follow them.
MS: Oh, I know some of their stuff. I feel like I don't know what would relate the most to this.
RC: I'm thinking of the barbershop, really taking over the space. So like putting hairstyles on all the mirrors on cut-outs and having everything crocheted, everything covered in something crocheted, really taking it over. I feel like the lights really take over this space.
MS: Yeah.
RC: Like as much as part of me did think that you brought in a lot of sand and made the floor look like that, I kind of knew this is the dirt floor, but the lights really made everything... It literally covers everything.
MS: Yeah, the light illuminates the whole space. One of the things I found really nice with the lights is that certain minerals or things within the space will glow more than others, so it kind of draws attention to different things that were already there, like the little piles of terracotta brick just kind of glow along one side.
RC: Weird. Can we talk about the spider that you found?
MS: Yes!
RC: Because it's huge and scary! And it is part of the space too.
MS: Yeah, and there's now two of them.
RC: Oh, there's two of them, oh my god!
MS: So there's this like giant bright red spiders called woodlouse hunter spiders, and they've crawled into the water of one of the vessels and met their demise, they're now dead.
RC: Poor dudes.
MS: But they're huge! And it's weird 'cause I haven't seen any woodlouses.
RC: Mmmm. Can one see wood lice?
MS: I think so, they're...I think the same as potato bugs.
RC: Oooh, okay. But yeah, that's definitely, bugs are a thing that would not exist in a gallery space. I remember doing a residency, and you have to wrap all the organic material that you bring in for 48 hours of something silly?
MS: Yeah, yeah. For most spaces with... I think it's a type two gallery, type one gallery, one of those ones. So when I was in the other space, like the University of Waterloo gallery, there were certain kind of restrictions on what direction I could take the work.
RC: Mhm.
MS: So I was allowed to have potting soil in there and certain plants, but there was this fine line. 'Cause they don't... They have a very small collection –
RC: Yeah.
MS: - so it wasn't a huge concern, but they didn't want it to become too much.
RC: Mhm.
MS: So I kept it pretty toned down. Whereas in this version, there's so many plants, there's so much water.
RC: Little cabbages everywhere.
MS: Oh yeah, just everything. But surprisingly I feel like there were just as many bugs at Waterloo.
RC: Interesting.
MS: There were a lot of earwigs.
RC: Do you want to talk about the plants that you have? Are these the same plants that you had at Waterloo as well?
MS: Some of them, yeah. So all the plants that were originally in the exhibition at Waterloo, I cared for her for about two months before installing them here.
RC: Mhm.
MS: And so all the carnivorous plants in the show –
RC: Cool.
MS: - are from the original exhibition.
RC: Mhm.
MS: And then there's new ones that have been brought in from my friend's garden. She grew some plants for me -
RC: That's so cool.
MS: - so that I could take them in here. And then, yeah, there's some fresh faces.
RC: Yeah! And, just to give listeners a bit of context, those purply...I always call them the bisexual plant lights...
MS: [Laughs] Yes! I saw that on your Instagram. I was like, "This is literally my show!"
RC: I know. [Both laugh]. So like, using those, do you know the technical stuff behind why those lights work on plants?
MS: Yeah! So... I'm forgetting which one corresponds to which, but the red light encourages them to fruit and flower, whereas the blue light will encourage them to grow stronger. So like, there's different... the different wavelengths of light will actually... or it'll nurture different things within the plants.
RC: Cool!
MS: So kind of having a balance of those two is really healthy. And then there's also some full spectrum white light to kind of balance things off.
RC: Yeah, yeah. I think it gives a very eerie kind of feel to the installation. Like, I was talking about Blade Runner and I can't remember what other horror or sci-fi movie, 'cause those colours are just so prominent. How do you feel, does it change the exhibition because they're coloured lights? Was that intentional or...
MS: I mean, the lights are intentional in that they are kind of required for... [both laugh], for life. But technically, there are grow lights that are just basically white full spectrum lights.
RC: Mhm, mhm. So you leaned into the coloured lights?
MS: Yeah.
RC: Nice.
MS: So it's still, like it is an aesthetic choice, but it's also a requirement. But yeah, I just find the blue and red wavelengths to aesthetically be much more warm, but also kind of off putting at the same time. And who doesn't love bisexual lighting?
RC: Who doesn't love bisexual lighting? Yeah, I think as people are locked down and also marijuana... I hate that I just said marijuana.
MS: [Laughs].
RC: It's the most racist cannabis word known to mankind. And now that cannabis is legal, people are growing a whole bunch of weed at home and they all have these grow lights. As I'm walking around, I notice that people have that kind of purply hue in their windows, and I know they're plant people.
MS: Yeah, exactly. [Both laugh]. You see that here...they're plant people. 100%.
RC: And to talk a bit about plants in a different direction, do you want to talk about fermentation and how that has worked into the show and your practice in general?
MS: Yeah. Within the show, the plants and the fermentation very much go hand-in-hand as part of an ongoing cycle. With a lot of the plants in the show, not the carnivorous plants, they're edible.
RC: Mmm.
MS: So one of the things that I try to think about in my work is kind of... not exactly the longevity of things in a sense, but like, how can I treat these plants and these non-human beings with a decent amount of respect? And I think that by kind of having a thorough plan for how everything's gonna happen is a way of doing that.
RC: Mhm.
MS: So, the fermentation place in to it because at the end of this exhibit, I can take a lot of the plants and preserve them, like make sauerkrauts, pickle things.
RC: Cool.
MS: So that process is kind of at the end. But then it also starts it kind of with the beginning.
RC: Mhm.
MS: 'Cause in the exhibition, there are various things that are fermenting live in front of you that have just been picked from outside during various seasons.
RC: So cool.
MS: Yeah. And I think... I also want to experiment with making fermentations that are good for soil and nutrients.
RC: Mmm, yeah.
MS: Yeah.
RC: That's so key. As a houseplant person, I keep being like, "Why are my plants dying? Maybe 'cause they're in this old ass soil."
MS: Yeah, totally.
RC: Oops.
MS: Yeah and instead of using... I can't remember the name...
RC: Miracle Grow?
MS: Yeah. [Both laugh]. Instead of using Miracle Grow it's like, "Okay, could I create some sort of nutrient-rich thing from fermentation?"
RC: Yeah. And I know... I'm a big nerd so one of the podcasts I listened to talk to about peat moss and how that's such an important carbon capturer, especially in the UK. So now I'm like, "I can't unethically buy peat moss," so I'm very interested in some home-made solutions to that.
MS: Yeah, definitely.
RC: Yeah, cool.
MS: There's actually... I do have some peat moss in the show. [Both laugh]. It's old peat moss, I found it at Habitat for Humanity.
RC: Oh cool.
MS: One of those spots that just sells random things that they have surpluses of. So I have a bunch of peat moss, so I gotta...
RC: It's so good for plants.
MS: And also, because it's so contentious, I find it an interesting material to use within a sense of also having it be this weird surplus thing.
RC: Mmm, yeah.
MS: So, I mean, I guess... Is there any ethical consumption under capitalism?
RC: I know, I know.
MS: But also it's like if it's going to be I guess it's like at a reuse centre.
RC: Yeah. Well I think artistic practice is very... should be, maybe? That’s I guess a big statement. But like, we have a responsibility to have a bit more ethically-sourced things? We aren't churning out a thousand versions of these things. We can have some agency in buying materials and making sure that everything is okay and people are fairly paid and etcetera.
MS: Yeah, for sure.
RC: When did you start fermenting things? What's this pre you using this as an artistic practice?
MS: Yeah, yeah. I made my first wine about, oh gosh maybe about four years ago now?
RC: Cool.
MS: Yeah! So I've been making wine for a while. And then... last year I made or helped make so many sauerkrauts and kimchis, [laughs].
RC: People loved it! The COVID panic round kimchi! [Laughs].
MS: Yes. So doing that with my good friends really just kind of brought fermentation back to the forefront of my mind.
RC: Mhm, mhm.
MS: And so probably definitely played a role in this work and bringing it into my art practice again.
RC: Yeah, yeah. So who taught you how to ferment in the first place?
MS: So one of my good friends, Trish Cook and I, we used to ferment things together and just kind of like... she really got me into how to ethically foraged things. So we've been doing that together for, oh gosh, maybe six years now.
RC: Awesome!
MS: Yeah! So that was my first foray into fermentation myself. There's a long line of fermenters on my mother's side.
RC: Oh, that's lovely!
MS: So have my family is Mennonite.
RC: Mhm.
MS: So there's a lot of different fermentation heritage there. So it's definitely in my family line. And then this past year just fermenting with more good friends of mine. Jacob and Julie, they also have an art practice and they're lovely humans who are very supportive.
RC: Do they incorporate fermentation into their art practices too?
MS: They haven't incorporated fermentation yet but they have incorporated food.
RC: Mmm.
MS: So both of us work with food in our art practices.
RC: Cool, very cool.
MS: Yeah.
RC: Very cool. Yeah, and your support networks are super key. You were talking about the difference between installing here versus in the gallery. Do you feel like there's different support networks in the DIY kind of space? People who you can text and be like, "Come install in this creepy basement." Versus people who you can text and be like, "Come install in this gallery." or is it the same kind of circle you're drawing from?
MS: I mean, it's definitely a different circle that I needed up drawing from. [Both laugh]. I don't know if it would be the same in every situation.
RC: Yeah.
MS: But for this context, I really relied on my family a lot. So I had my 20-something year old cousins come and help me. because, I don't know, it made sense in this context too. ‘Cause I grew up going to this church with them also as a family.
RC: Yeah, yeah.
MS: So they were familiar with the space. And then having them come in and help me set it up was somehow...fitting?
RC: Yeah, they're like the art handler of the church. They know where everything is. [Both laugh].
MS: Exactly. But I think I could have asked any number of people to help me out. Everybody within doing a DIY show too has been incredibly supportive.
RC: Awesome.
MS: So Pleasure Dome gave me a really good deal on a projector for this, and so there's just been a lot of people that have... people and organizations that have supported me.
RC: Yeah, yeah. And these are people that have known you before or you met during your undergrad or...?
MS: No! Some of them not even! Some of them I've never met. I just put out calls on Instagram for things and people just, I think really wanted to see the show happen and have it be something in person.
RC: Mhm.
MS: And like, "Wow, this human's been working on this for so long. How can we help this to happen?" Which was just so sweet.
RC: Yeah, yeah. That's how I found my space to do my thesis as well. Just a call out on Instagram.
MS: Yeah.
RC: I feel like Instagram such a big part of community making and it got way more important during the pandemic. Yesterday Instagram went down and everybody freaked the fuck out. [Both laugh].
MS: It's so funny, I didn't realize that everybody was freaking out as much as they were. I was super chill. I was like, "This is kind of inconvenient."
RC: I was trying to actively bitch and post. I was like mid-rant when it crashed, so that's the only reason that I noticed. And then my rants uploaded when the problem had already solved itself, so it was really awkward. I had to go back and delete it two hours later, but no I was busy that day too.
MS: Oh my gosh.
RC: Do you feel like you're... because you grew up here and you went to McMaster that you do have connections and a community in Hamilton that you're drawing from?
MS: Yeah. I feel like... I did go to McMaster and that's all fine and well an good. That is what it is. But the community that I have here was mainly formed through being part of the Hamilton Audio Visual Node, so HAVEN.
RC: Oh, okay, yeah.
MS: Yeah. So I think that was really the thing that created a really supportive system here.
RC: That's what everybody says. And I moved here as...the month HAVEN shut down I think. Yeah, I really missed the boat.
MS: Yeah, [laughs]. I mean, it's still...we're still a thing.
RC: It's still a thing?
MS: It's still a thing, we just don't have a space. But also, in a pandemic, it's kinda not... it hasn't been a thing for a little bit but I'm not willing to say it's not even a thing anymore.
RC: Are you a founding member? I don't know much about it.
MS: I'm not a founding member. That's a whole other group of people.
RC: Mhm.
MS: So I came along... definitely part way through its history. I joined in 2017.
RC: Oh okay.
MS: Yeah. And then I think it had been already running for three years before that I wanna say?
RC: Cool.
MS: Yeah, maybe more.
RC: So do you feel like you've been in mostly artist-run spaces and DIY spaces like churches, or you've had a lot of gallery experience?
MS: No, mainly DIY spaces. Yeah, because of the nature of my work, yeah. It's just...it's a tougher thing to show within institutions. Partly because of the permanent collections and having living work, but yeah, they're complicated installs. Getting the work there is really difficult.
RC: Getting it through the door...
MS: Exactly. There's all these barriers to this kind of weird work being shown.
RC: Yeah.
MS: Which is really too bad, 'cause I think this sort of work is exciting and I would love to see more of it.
RC: Yeah.
MS: Within institutions and in larger scales.
RC: Mhm.
MS: But for now, it seems like it's mainly...a lot of the labour for doing it falls onto the artist, if you're gonna do this sort of thing. Which makes it very much a labour of love.
RC: Yeah.
MS: 'Cause you have to find... be resourceful and finding spots to store things. And you have to... yeah, for this show, I carried in...for this show and the previous one all together it would be... I carried about 4000 pounds of soil myself.
RC: Like on a trolley? Did you have a red wagon walking around?
MS: I had a trolley for some of it but not all of it.
RC: Oh no!
MS: A lot of it was just me carrying it in 40-pound bags at a time.
RC: You should have recorded it, I feel like that's a performance for your installation, you know?
MS: [Laughs]. I think so.
RC: Like Sisyphus with the dirt.
MS: Yeah 'cause I carried it...like multiple trips from Home Depot to the gallery. And then from the gallery into another room once the exhibition was done. And then from that room into a truck, and then from the truck into the basement here. It was just like all...[laughs], 2000 pounds of soil. Like 2000-4000 every single time for all of that. It's so much.
RC: But I think it also speaks to you reusing the materials. I feel like you're making faux wall studs? How do you describe the wooden installation?
MS: Yeah. It's pretty much a very similar method to building walls.
RC: Yeah.
MS: As far as properly building walls like in a building... [laughs]. I cheated -
RC: They're a bit wiggly for that. [Laughs].
MS: The supports aren't as close together as they should be, but, you know, it's just holding plastic.
RC: It looks like it. I grew up around a lot of renovations, I don't know why. I know a lot about drywall.
MS: Okay.
RC: So I saw it and I was like, "Oh, this looks up to code."
MS: Yeah.
RC: Not thinking that it actually would be. But it looked like a construction site. I think the plastic also really referenced that too.
MS: Yeah.
RC: How did you learn how to do that? Or did you Google "how to build a wall." do you have a background in installing like that?
MS: No, I don't really. But that was a look that I wanted to go for. And then...yeah, that was just kind of what ended up working out. I built a work table before starting this project. I built the worktable the same way you would build a wall, 'cause I wanted it to be really secure. And then that exact same method just ended up transferring over to this. [Laughs].
RC: Yeah. And so you brought the soil over, you reuse the plants. I'm just thinking about like... large-scale gallery shows I know... this is an insider secret; I know that they buy stuff off Amazon every single time and just end up throwing everything out. So it's interesting that you brought it with you. Do you feel like it has pedigree now? You know, it's like. "This is shown here, and this dirt has shown here." Is that important to you or it's very much just like an ethical thing?
MS: I mean, it's more so an ethical thing. But I do also like that as, you know, this continues to be shown in different places. If it does ever get shown in another place past this, you know, it'll carry this history with it, as opposed to being a brand-new thing every time.
RC: Yeah.
MS: But primarily it was an ethical concern. I just don't... yeah, I really don't like the amount of waste that's produced within doing exhibitions and so the idea of it just being a one-off and then rebuilding it for the next one from scratch just doesn't quite sit right with me.
RC: Yeah, yeah.
MS: So as much as I can, I try to do justice to the materials that are used and have them... yeah, even within my art practice as a whole -
RC: Mhm.
MS: - I tend to reuse materials from past projects and then include them into new ones. Kind of like... yeah, letting them kind of metabolize into new and different things.
RC: That's so funny that you say "metabolize," and use fermentation. I'm just thinking about yeast eatin' things.
MS: Oh yeah. [Both laugh].
RC: Do you feel like fermentation is a metaphor in your practice then? Are you using it as a conceptual backing?
MS: Yeah for sure. Within the work, there's a large focus on metabolism as a... like and its different forms. Thinking about consumption in terms of heterotrophic life, which is basically life that needs to consume other things in order to survive.
RC: Mmm, okay.
MS: And then things like autotrophic life, which consume or can transform light and photosynthesize and create their own.
RC: Mhm.
MS: And then... yeah. So things that also create by-products like, through consumption creating things like trash and what that looks like on a biological level. Which can be like, yeast can also create certain toxins. So kind of looking at yeast and the way it's metabolized in creating toxic things, but then also things that can be worked through.
RC: Yeah, and I feel like the title kind of hints at that for me. Like, Rat Plastic Wood, like "rat" and "wood" are two things that would be here if settlers weren't here anyway. Or, maybe not rats. Are rats indigenous to North America?
MS: There's different types of rats, I'm not sure.
RC: Canadian rats. But plastic is kind of this interruption for me, so it was really interesting to have something that doesn't degrade within and acting as an insulator. Maybe that's what makes it eerie too, knowing that some parts of your exhibition will melt away and then this plastic will be there kind of forever.
MS: Yeah, that is something that... I like that tension between different time scales.
RC: Mmm.
MS: So yeah, a lot of the things are actively changing right in front of you. Whereas other aspects of it could have this sort of sense of permanence.
RC: Mhm.
MS: But those things also aren't permanent, like they're also actively changing in front of you, just on an incredibly slow time scale.
RC: And it's so funny that you use wall studs and house building as well. I feel like being a settler here, I look at the houses a lot as proof of settlement. Like, I'll look around and be like, "Why does this look like England? Oh yeah. Why are there all these Roman Catholic churches here? Oh yeah." So like, building is very like a settler activity. So for you to flip it and incorporate fermentation, almost you want this to decompose? Is that the kind of way you're approaching it?
MS: Yeah. I haven't done anything to preserve the wood on the inside or coat it with anything.
RC: Oh cool.
MS: So... say the basement isn't gonna get redone, this work is here forever –
RC: Sure.
MS: - it would slowly start to decompose from the things that are actively inside of it.
RC: I feel like that would be the ultimate installation if it just never left, you know?
MS: I know.
RC: And you closed the door and it was like a tomb. Also the little sign that says, "This is art," is like, the most, this is installed in a space will have people who don't know what the fuck this is [both laugh]. Like, it's not in an art school, it's not in a gallery, it's completely out of context.
MS: Yeah. [Both laugh]. It needs to be specified.
RC: Do you feel like it also changed like, being in the church, how you approached it? You treated it as less art, you were able to be more loose with it? Or do you feel like, 'cause you had to set your parameters, you were more strict with yourself?
MS: That's interesting. I think I was more loose with it, but it also made me more insecure about it, which is really interesting because to go from the MFA culture of, you know, everybody has this assumed knowledge, and you get really comfortable working within these spaces and like, having an assumed level of understanding. For my work, there's... I've had people, even within the university context be like, "But why is this art?" [both laugh].
RC: The ultimate question.
MS: But within that I was like, "Ugh, how could they not know?" But then coming into this completely different situation, and it made me feel kind of insecure, 'cause I was like, how do like...for a large majority of the people... I mean, I'm speaking kind of... making some assumptions here –
RC: Yeah.
MS: - 'cause not everyone from the church here has seen the work or anything.
RC: For sure.
MS: But I do know from a small sampling that many of the people here, mainly when you say, "There's an art show in the basement," the assumption is that it's going to be paintings, [laughs].
RC: Paintings! It's always paintings. I tell people I'm an artist, they're like, "What do you paint?" I'm like, "I've never painted in my entire life and I'm terrible at it." [Laughs].
MS: Yeah, so then having this down there, I was so afraid when I was installing it that people would come and see it and they would just be like, "Get this out of here. What is happening?"
RC: You were having literal imposter syndrome.
MS: Oh yeah. And it felt like this impossible task to try and tell people what it was.
RC: Yeah.
MS: I didn't know how to do it. Also I mean, having not really talked to most humans for a year-and-a-half, outside of, you know, pandemic and then just being in art school. I was like, "How do I engage with this?" but the people who came from the church actually, they seem to really get it.
RC: That's awesome.
MS: Yeah.
RC: I think people... me being a really big nerd again. The start of preschool was like, that's what changed contemporary art. That's how abstraction was actually created. I'll send you the podcast.
MS: Oooh.
RC: But when we change your education system to tell kids, "This is art. This is beautiful. You can just paint with colours and that's legitimate." I think people are getting to know more and more like, post-soup cans, like art can be anything.
MS: Yeah. I don't know how many people know about soup cans from the congregation here either. [Both laugh]. But yeah, I think thankfully... a lot of people just came in very willing to be curious.
RC: Mmm.
MS: And I think that curiosity has a lot to do with it.
RC: Yeah, hmm.
MS: So I don't feel like an imposter anymore. But it was an interesting feeling originally, to be like... yeah, they didn't know what I was doing down there when I started. They just thought it was... art.
RC: Is it going to be up on the church's website or anything? Do they have any documentation or do they want documentation?
MS: We haven't really discussed it.
RC: I feel like it would be cute to save them a postcard or something, you know?
MS: Oh yeah, [both laugh], I'll do that.
RC: I'm just thinking, when a gallery... or if someone has it in their garage, usually that person is like... again, this idea of pedigree, like, this is shown here before. I think your work is so... not bizarre, but definitely very far away from painting [both laugh]. But it's amazing to see that people from the church did come and see it and they value it and they're curious about it. I think it'd be cool 20 years now for church people be like, "And then remember when this thing was installed in our basement?"
MS: That's true. Yeah, have it become part of the online archive of the church.
RC: Yeah. I was just curious if they were thinking about letting other artists even come into the basement, or you think this is going to be a one-time thing. Obviously, it's very generous for them to give you the basement.
MS: Yeah. I think it might be more along the lines of a one-time thing.
RC: Yeah.
MS: Not necessarily, but I know they have plans for this building, so…
RC: Mmm, cool. It's a good building.
MS: Yeah.
RC: I very much would love to perform in here. Every time I go into an empty mall, like that's where I wanna perform. This has very empty mall vibes. Yeah.
MS: [Laughs], I think it would be very cool if they opened it up.
RC: Maybe another artist in the congregation would be like, "So, you let this person do this..."
[Intro music fades in]
MS: Potentially.
RC: Thanks for listening to Hopping the Fence, a podcast dedicated to the fringes of the Canadian art scene.
If you have an artist that you would like to hear interviewed, would like to correct / fact check a past episode, or would like to chat, feel free to send me a message on Instagram @hoppingthefence, or by email at rebeccaecasalino@gmail.com. Thanks to the OCAD Student Union for your financial support. Thank you to all of our Patreons for your ongoing support. It truly does help me avoid burnout and keeps this podcast rolling. If you would like to support Hopping the Fence please visit our Patreon to subscribe. Check out the show notes for more details. If you can’t donate, no worries. Thanks for taking the time to listen.
Audio editing for Hopping the Fence by Emily Reimer. Original artwork by Alex Gregory, and original music by Jessica Price Eisner. Transcription by Jessica Price Eisner.
Thank you so much, bye!
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