Emily Reimer
Hopping the Fence Podcast Transcript - #9, Emily Reimer
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RC: Hello, I’m Rebecca Casalino, and this is Hopping the Fence, a podcast dedicated to talk to artists on the fringes on the Canadian art scene. Emily Reimer is an interdisciplinary artist based in Guelph, Ontario. Her work uses performance, drawing, and video to think about her relationships to herself and the people around her, often working in close collaboration with family members.
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Our conversation is recorded in Tkaranto, on the traditional territories of the Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Anishinaabe, and Mississaugas of the New Credit First Nations.
This episode of hopping the fence contains use of a dated and derogatory term for sex workers, as well as discussion of Catholic mythology.
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RC: Hey Emily!
ER: Hello. How are you Rebecca?
RC: I’m good, how are you?
ER: I’m doin’ alright.
RC: Do you want to tell the listeners where you are right now?
ER: I am in Guelph, Ontario in my bedroom. The window's open, there's a candle lit. Very charming and cozy in here.
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RC: You painted a real picture right there, [laughs].
ER: [Laughs].
RC: So you're practice I feel like is pretty expansive, so I'm not going to ask you to summarize all of it. But do you want to talk a bit about your visual arts practice and what that looks like right now just to give a sense for people?
ER: Yeah, sure. So I am, I don't know, I kind of working everything. Right now, I'm doing a lot more drawing and painting and digital drawings and little animations. I love to also work in performance and do little interventions and do videos and work with all kinds of material.
RC: So when you mean "get your hands on," like things that are around the house or are you going and thinking about other people's practices and like if your neighbour is making Pottery you start making pottery, how does that happen for you?
ER: Oh, it's totally like a neighbour is making pottery thing. I'm living with roommates right now and one of my roommates is Abby from Otherwise Studios, so her and I have been doing lots of crafts around the house. We made our Halloween costumes together. You forgot how helpful it is to be around someone who's also a maker, 'cause not only can you pool your physical resources, but you can pull your Collective imaginations and we're sharing... Not only are we sharing measuring tapes and glue and paint but also advice and all that other... I don't know, all that other fun stuff that comes with sharing Studio spaces and stuff.
RC: Yeah. Do you find that when you shared a studio space in Guelph that's practice worked as well? Or this is something that's happened after graduation?
ER: I think to an extent in Guelph. I think in terms of school, when I was sharing a studio in school, I loved everything about that. I purposefully asked to be in a room where there were always people passing through. I was in the room that's connected to the kitchen -
RC: Same!
ER: So like any time... I think we might've had the same studio.
RC: Oh yeah we did!
ER: I think any time someone wanted to walk to the kitchen they had to talk to me, and I'd be like, "Do you have an appointment?" [Both laugh].
RC: I totally did the same thing. I was like, "You have to visit me if you come make coffee!"
ER: Yeah. And I think I work really well that way. Part of it's because I'm super insecure and I always want other people's advice and opinions. Back to the idea of doing anything I can get my hands on, I think I kind of like to sift through stuff and things. When I make art, it's usually reactionary. I'm making something about something else. Like I might come across something that I find super interesting and want to make something about that, and so in the same way that those conversations with people passing by also helped me kind of sift through thoughts and ideas that way. I don't know if that's like a totally complete sentence. That makes sense, [laughs].
RC: Yeah. I think that that's the beauty of making community. And I think some people turn to Siri to get new ideas and some people turn to whatever, TV or pop culture. But I think turning two people around you makes some really authentic art that's reacting to your community and everyone around you and what's going on.
ER: Yeah, totally. You and I are similar in that way because you have that book that you kind of drew everyone and your class. Okay, I did something similar but like I haven't even done anything with it yet, but I was making everyone I knew give me photos of them when they were little and playing sports.
RC: Yes.
ER: I was just like, "I need a collection of everyone I know in their stupid little soccer portrait photos." I feel like there's something magical about it. I haven't done anything with them yet, but -
RC: Oh my god.
ER: -stuff like that, like mining for my friend group is something I... I love to mine from everywhere. Pop culture and everything, but specifically I like to mooch off of people. [Laughs].
RC: Yeah. I think for me it was Diane Borsato was teaching our Extended I, and she showed us this video of her dad play keep up with the soccer ball that was shaped like the world.
ER: Oh, that's such a good one.
RC: Such a good one. And I have a complicated relationship with my family, so whenever I see other artists working with their family, it just melts my heart in a specific way.
ER: Yeah.
RC: So I think working with people who are around you who aren't artists and are just like, living their lives, or maybe they are artists, just makes such rich work.
ER: Yeah, I totally... I feel the exact same way. And that's what I like... that video of Diane's totally... I mean, that's one of the projects that she prompts is for people to make a video about their parents. But that like triggered something in me. It was like, "What can I pull out of you guys?" That...as people that are non-artists but really just wanna be involved. It paints this really beautiful portrait of these two people that care so much but have no idea about anything that's going on. [Both laugh].
RC: Do you want to talk a bit about the project that came out of Diane's prompt? I never had that prompts so I didn't know that that's how you came up with those videos. And I really love those videos. I think that might have been one of the first set of works that I saw by you. And I was like, "This is siiiick."
ER: I think the first one that I made for that class was more of just an experiment. I made my mom put on her wedding gown and I made my dad put on his wedding... I don't think he's still had his wedding suit, I think you just put on a random tuxedo. It was just like a short little video. It's just them doing weird breathing exercises and then posing next to each other. And this was like right around I think they're 27th wedding anniversary as well.
RC: Mhm.
ER: So it was like this really weird portrait that kind of like, for me, it makes me think about what their life was like before me. But then it's also like this portrait of two people who are doing something explicitly for me and who are doing this ridiculous thing because I asked them to.
RC: Mhm.
ER: So it's really kind of like this little family portrait almost.
RC: Yeah. It becomes a performance for you as the person directing your parents. Also as the child, that must have been really fun, [laughs].
ER: Yeah, it was so fun. And then for my other videos that I did later weren't a direct response to that project but I just had so much fun working with them that I wanted to do more... The first one I did was I made my dad shave with me, like teach me how to shave. And then the other one was I filmed them for a really long time on a Saturday morning when they were just chilling around the house. They were getting so... first it was like, "Oh, haha, you're making a video. Doo doo doo, let's just do funny things on camera." And then it got to the point where they were like, "Okay, please stop filming me." [Both laugh]. And then I lip-synced to that... I made this big audio splice them telling me to stop filming them and then lip synced to it in a crazy funky outfit that was... That outfit was kind of like a... Just a bunch of random stuff that I had around my studio, but I created this Persona that was like the every parent I guess, or like the morning parent. The gross, icky, wearing a bathrobe kind of thing with a wig.
RC: Amazing. And then after that project, is that when you started working with Jonah? 'Cause I saw your show at Zavitz. Was it called Wigs?
ER: It was called Wig? Yeah. I think it was after, yeah.
RC: So after that you started working with persona and getting dressed up in these kind of, I feel like lip syncing and then dragged is like this very queer culture thing-
ER: Oh yeah.
RC: -and pairing up with Jonah for that project just made so much sense.
ER: [Laughs]. Yeah. I think for us... I don't know, I guess dressing up is a huge part of it. Drag is obviously really important to both of us, but it's also almost like next to drag for me at least. I know for Jonah a lot of it's solidified and drag. For me it's almost like... And the way it relates back to my practice is like this art of dressing up as a child and being like, "I'm gonna dress up like Mommy..." It's kind of like a childhood thing maybe?
RC: Like a plaything versus a performance thing?
ER: Like a play. Just playing dress up think it's more where I kind of sent her back to my own interests.
RC: Mhm. And when thinking about play, one of the works that I have from you is a basketball print and I just keep seeing these motifs of sports and now this idea of like you collecting pictures of your friends in their tiny sports uniforms. What's your relationship with games and sports and how does that factor into your practice?
ER: So that factors in as... I always talk about it as this weird, especially juvenile preteen sports. I played a lot of sports as a child and I all the ways hated them but always had an amazing time. It was like this really weird intersection of like, I hated it so so so so much but then there are the most tender moments of my childhood we're in the same period. I loved my team, but then it's also like there's bullying and there's also...I loved playing the game but I wasn't super fit. I was actually kind probably one of the worst athletes on the team. [Both laugh]. It's this really tender kind of sore bittersweet portrait of youth is like sports, [laughs].
RC: No I totally agree. My best friend in elementary school was on every school sports team and she'd make me try out with her so that she didn't go alone to the tryouts, but I fully never made any of the teams, [laughs].
ER: Yeah. I played basketball and I swam, and both of those are like some of the most beautiful kids, how am I going to say this so that it doesn't sound rude? Some of the most beautiful athletes in the world that are like super beautiful strong... Some of the prettiest most popular girls always playing the sports. Until you've got this weird range of popularity on the team as well, and you've got this blending of middle school cliques where some of the kids were super nerdy and some of the kids were super unathletic and also nerdy, and then some of the kids we're like the coolest kids in school. And I was friends with all of them. But now it's like...I don't know. I remember there was one year where I got cut from the team and I was so crushed. I remember having this pep talk with my dad where he was like, "You know what? This coach, he knew he was going to cut you. He had already decided before you tried out. And this doesn't mean anything. He's just an asshole." And then there were short girls so they asked me to come back, and I went back.
RC: Oh no. [Laughs].
ER: Just so many painful, painful memories that I think created me as who I am today - this neurotic, nervous wreck most of the time.
RC: Mmm.
ER: But again, I loved it so much. I don't know.
RC: Well you wouldn't have stayed if you didn't love it, right?
ER: Exactly, why did I go back? [Both laugh].
RC: So for you it's more about the social aspects than the objects necessarily?
ER: I think it's about all of it. I think for me, the reason I'm interested in it in general, and also the reason I was collecting all those pictures of my friends as children in sports was like... I think that it was about a feeling. But then I also like to use objects and kind of the comparison of sports to choreography and dance as another weird... as kind of an artistic... how am I trying to say this? I think they go hand-in-hand I guess. For me, I began to be interested in it socially, but I also like to think about it as an artistic... Like, I love looking at shapes and forms of the basketball or the soccer ball or the uniforms and thinking about them as artistic garments and stuff too.
RC: Yeah, they're such easily recognizable symbols. And as kids I remember learning how to draw a basketball, learning how to draw a soccer ball. And once you know that you're an artist.
ER: Mhm. Have you ever seen... there's a really, really good Micah Lexier piece where he gets a bunch of people to draw a soccer ball? And the soccer ball's notoriously difficult to draw. 'Cause you're like, "Wait a second, I don't remember how to make this." and I guess in his context, it's more about learning and infographics I feel like that's his whole thing. But that is one of my favourite things in the world because it's like, "Yeah. This soccer ball's so emblematic, but why is it so hard to draw?" it's just a perfect metaphor, for me at least, for what I'm thinking about when I think about sports.
RC: Mhm.
ER: This difficult relationship.
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RC: Yeah, and having to work hard at something, I feel like sports is kind of like art. You have to have this like, sustained practice and there's weird off seasons and seasons. I don't like it.
ER: [Laughs]. Yeah. And I'm not someone who keeps up with current sports either, which maybe people are... Maybe that's a little weird that I don't really care about basketball now, [laughs].
RC: Well if you're coming at it from nostalgia that's fine.
ER: Yeah. And I think you're right. Now that I think about it, I think a lot of it is kind of like an image-based thing too. I love to think about... I remember once in a critique, somebody was talking about how sports are kind of almost choreographed. And the art of designing a play for your offense or whatever is so close to dance and art. I think that's really...I LOVED when I started to think about it that way.
RC: Yeah, you should talk to some dance people and get their sports pictures from when they were kids too. I feel like that would be good.
ER: Yeah, totally. And then you get back to this idea of dressing up. The whole idea of the sports world and all of the pageantry and regalia and mascots and face paint is just like, it makes so much sense. But then it's also so macho, [laughs].
RC: Oh, it's so macho!
ER: Mhm. I listen to a really good podcast recently about... I don't know if you ever listen to the podcast You're Wrong About, do you know that one?
RC: No.
ER: You would probably really like that one. It's these two kind of writer/academics and they just talk about pop culture events that have been misremembered. They released an episode that was like a sister podcast or something, it was like one of the guys... wasn't really that important. But one of the guys from You're Wrong About did an episode with, I can't remember who her name was, but fitness tests in the United States and the origin of them and how they were designed to be this super...they were designed to just measure how kids were at fitness and stuff and then they become this humiliating...I guess in this context, we'd be talking about the beep test or something.
RC: The beep test! There was also like grade ten fitness.
ER: It becomes this humiliating, excruciating...like, it was the worst day of my life. I was the last kid. It was just so awful. But they were talking about kind of the history of the introduction of that kind of test and how it started as this health initiative, and then became this kind of weird moral panic about Fitness, [laughs].
RC: Yeah, super weird. And grounded in a lot of fat phobia I think too.
ER: Totally. Yeah totally.
RC: Fitness. It's so strange.
ER: I know. So weird. But yeah, that's another side of sports that I think...I'm totally not interested in the fitness aspect. I'm interested in like, the Carrie locker room scene where she gets her period for the first time, you know? The kind of behind the scenes of the sports.
RC: For sure.
ER: Sharon Lockhart, she has this amazing sports video that's like one of my favourite videos of all time.
RC: Sharon Lockhart. I don't know her work. What is the video?
ER: She has a video called Goshgaoka, I'm probably not pronouncing that entirely correctly. But it's just a video of this Japanese girls basketball team, and they're just going through their exercises and it's super regimented and very... They're just jogging around the gym. The camera is just a single static shot. It's just the girls kind of going back and forth across the gym and it's super rhythmic and beautiful. And very... It almost creates like a... music, right? The squeaks of the shoes and the beat of the feet trudging across the floor, it's so, so, so, so pretty. And that it also is like, I don't know. It's just that, again, for me, that total capture. Because it's a young girls team, it's beautiful time in your life where you don't know your body at all, [laughs].
RC: [Laughs]. I don't know if I would describe that as a beautiful time of my life but we can run with it.
ER: [Laughs], okay. Yeah, when I say beautiful, I don't mean... It definitely doesn't feel good, but in hindsight it's this kind of beautiful, tragic awkwardness where you're like finding yourself and you don't know who you are.
RC: Mhm, mhm. I find that's really lost now with Gen Z, 'cause they don't have like an awkward phase 'cause they've been watching beauty tutorial videos since they were five. It's very rude.
ER: Mhm. Yeah I've been seeing a lot of TikToks that were like, "Me when I was a 15 year old now versus me when I was 15," and it's like... wow.
RC: [Laughs], it's true.
ER: But that's a whole other thing about society's sexualization of literally children.
RC: I know. Yeah, it's concerning and also I think we're asking people to grow up a lot quicker.
ER: Totally. I mean the political climate asks, forces people to grow up quicker too.
RC: Mhm. Yeah. And also entering institutions, it just... leaving high school and entering institutions that's not free and that you have to pay for, or that you have to apply for in a specific way kind of like exit the public...
ER: Yeah and when you're 17.
RC: Yeah. So scary. [Both laugh].
ER: Yeah. And I'm someone who went straight to school. I didn't take a break. And as a 17-18-year-old, I was so, so bad at everything. I was so bad. And I remember, I think I got...'cause I went straight into Studio Art at Guelph too. I got 50s in my first three studio classes 'cause I didn't care and I didn't know what I wanted to do.
RC: Mhm, mhm.
ER: But then you meet the right people who push you towards... I guess not push you but kind of light a fire. At least for me, I was like, "Oh, I can do art that's not painting or drawing,"
RC: Yeah.
ER -which is what I thought it was gonna be the whole time.
RC: What was that moment for you? Do you remember when you figure it out you could have a practice that was different from what you had imagined?
ER: I think I remember having a really hard time in print the first time. And print is something that I have also grown...that's one of my main things now... is print and litho and screen, I love it so much. But I remember chest feeling like so defeated and seeing all these people who could just draw so much better than me and paint so much better than me and realize what they wanted to realize so much better than me. I took extended with Dave Dyment, and he just showed us so much stuff that was like nothing I had ever seen before.
RC: Mhm.
ER: But that was definitely like... It wasn't in school moment. It was definitely like a teacher showing me things. Yeah.
RC: Oh yeah. Christian showed us this Will Wegman video-
ER: Oh yeah.
RC: -and me and Christian were the only two people laughing in that whole auditorium. [Laughs].
ER: [Laughs]. Yeah, it's so sad, the red carpeted stairs.
RC: Yeah so I lost my mind and was like, "This is what I want to do forever," [laughs].
ER: Mhm, mhm, totally.
RC: But I think part of being in school is being around older artists and having these mentorships happen.
ER: Yeah, you don't really get to choose, you just kind of start to idolize someone, [laughs].
RC: Yeah, and then once you exit then you realize you're peers, you know? And it becomes different.
ER: Yeah.
RC: But how have you been outside of school? Where are you getting that kind of mentorship and support from?
ER: I guess right now... I mean, it's difficult through quarantine. I have a studio space in Kitchener which we are now not... I'm now not really using because of COVID.
RC: Yeah.
ER: But I think for me, my process with art, this whole past year and a half or whatever that I've been out of school has been... How do I put this academically or non-academically? To de-academ...to just make art without having to think intellectually about it. That has been something that I've really really been trying hard to do. And not because I want to totally reject the academics or the research side of things, but because that is something that stopped me from making a lot of things that I wanted to make. This constant battle that Jonah and I had when we shared a studio was I'd be like, "Oh, I really really wish I could paint," and he'd be like, "Emily, paint! You can paint! You can just do it!" And I'd be like, "No, I really, I can't because I don't have the background or information, or I don't know the contemporary context of painting in 2019." It was this thing that I couldn't get over. And everybody has imposter syndrome but I feel like I invented imposter syndrome, [laughs].
RC: I am the queen of imposter syndrome!
ER: Yeah! [Both laugh].
RC: That's so funny.
ER: Yeah.
RC: I think that painting...like I definitely said that to different professors. Also I have a Catholic upbringing, right? So painting for me is very-
ER: Oh yeah, same.
RC: -spiritual and transcendental. So I would say like, "You're bringing into the world these images made of layers and paint itself has it's own meaning." And my profs would just roll their eyes at me. Because I don't think that's how painters see painting, but that's how people who are scared of painting see painting, [laughs].
ER: Yeah, totally. Yeah.
RC: And do you want to talk a little bit about your Halloween costume?
Because I feel like that was the art that I saw and I was like, "This is amazing." And artists do a specific type of DIY home costume that I really appreciate.
ER: Yeah. Let's talk about your Halloween costume too after I talk about mine, [laughs]. I feel like ours kind of clicked together in a good way.
RC: Yeah.
ER: I was Hildegard of Bingen, the high medieval artist/nun/...people think she was kind of a savant. God spoke to her, kind of in the same way as a Joan of Ark style legend I think.
RC: Mhm.
ER: Where she wrote a lot of music, compose a lot of music, did a lot of crazy paintings. She has this huge mandorla painting that just is a giant vagina that's gold and blue.
RC: Amazing.
ER: And so I dressed as her. And that's another kind of thing where I feel like my love of dressing up and on the kind of artistic side of my practice I like that kind of stuff. And then I'm also connecting it back to things that I'm just generally interested in, [laughs]. Like the medieval times. [Both laugh]. I don't know, I just had a lot of fun. Halloween is something that I always do. I think specifically for me and Tristan, my partner, the medieval era, 'cause he's an art historian I guess, we love talking about medieval stuff because it's so stupid all the time and people look to them as this crazy... this authority I guess.
RC: Yeah.
ER: And real people who study medieval studies are like, "No. These people were insane."
RC: It's all fart jokes.
ER: They were just high all the time.
RC: Yeah!
ER: And the drawings... I'm in this really really good Facebook group called "The Internet but we pretend it's 1453,” and so people just post stupid medieval memes because it's just so good. I don't know. It's just stupid meme stuff but I love it.
RC: Also the medieval times was considered like trash and European history, like nothing happened and everyone was miserable, but we always talk about it!
ER: Yeah, and then you get to shit like...oh, like medieval movies? Movies that are set in the medieval times are always also so campy and crazy and the costumes are insane. It's like, literally men in tights. Like Robin Hood men in tights.
RC: So good.
ER: It's so gay.
RC: I just think of Monty Python. Like him with the coconuts going through the woods pretending to ride a horse, [laughs].
ER: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And it's a perfect mesh... at least the way I think about it, it's totally ironic. It's steeped in so many levels of irony. The art is so fun, the drawings are so stupid in this weird illustrative style that's actually kind of really popular today. It's kind of pared down really, really flat way of drawing things which I love. And then the drawings are exaggerated like crazy because people had never seen certain things in real life before. There's those weird drawings of medieval men fighting snails all the time or whatever. I saw a Vox video about that.
RC: Oh my gosh, [laughs]. Now I'm just thinking about people fighting snails.
ER: So good.
RC: Those wood blocks I feel like our very much be coming popularized now. And that's funny because it ties back to your printing process, [laughs].
ER: Mhm. And all of that stuff, like even the illuminated manuscripts. I made a zine maybe like a year ago called Medieval Life, which was just a bunch of stupid... I think I just gave it away for free at an art opening. I didn't really post it anywhere but it was just a bunch of stupid drawings that were just jokes about medieval life but then I kind of Drew them in a combination of my style but also in this kind of Byzantine weird style. I'm probably mixing all of these periods up. I really don't know that much about medieval times.
RC: You might as well. No one else knows either, it's fine.
ER: Yeah, it's true. Nobody else really fricking knows. But yeah, I made the zine and in it I had... it's funny 'cause I feel like I'm scribing all of these weird funny little inside jokes that are just for me but I get to make them all... I get to draw in the margins and have all of this really fun marginalia, which was really a huge thing at the time. And that's a huge part of medieval history, medieval illuminated manuscripts, right?
RC: Mhm.
ER: It's just super flamboyant and great and colourful and dumb. I love things that are dumb, [laughs].
RC: Yes!
ER: I love dumb humour.
RC: It's so good and it's relatable and accessible and you don't have to... You can laugh for days at something really stupid, and you don't have to think too hard about it.
ER: Oh yeah, totally, totally.
RC: Awesome.
ER: I think it's like memes too. I think humour has always been a thing... Like everything that I make is funny somehow.
RC: Yeah.
ER: And I think it all comes back to, yeah, dumb humour. And then what do we use humour for, right? Like what are we trying to... It's like a big question but like, we use humour for what? [Laughs]. We use it to make ourselves feel better about things, the process things, to help us understand the world, right?
RC: Mhm. And I see it as my role specifically and of course every artist has their own understanding but I try to put stuff out into the world that makes people laugh because I tend to be negative and very critical of the art world so I want my art to bring some levity and give a break, damn.
ER: Yeah. I totally agree with that. I feel like I do it for similar reasons. In real life, I'm pretty frickin' cynical but...[laughs].
RC: [Laughs and sighs].
ER: I wanna hear about your Halloween costume too.
RC: Yeah, so did you recog - I did Mary Magdalene-
ER: Yeah, yeah yeah. Yeah, I got it.
RC: -and usually she's painted in red versus like, when I grew up learning about Catholicism, you hear the same stories throughout the calendar year 'cause that's how it's laid out. I think most religions do the same thing like every week it's a different story.
ER: Yeah.
RC: So I always learned about good Mary being dressed in blue. And then bad Mary who was a prostitute and dressed in red. So it's this weird idea of two Mary’s, and I loved the idea of meshing them up as a mother-slut dynamic.
ER: Mhm. I love that.
RC: But also they had the same name, so you can be Mary and you can be good and you can be bad. So I really loved dressing up as her and being sexy about it and giving her a halo and being like, "Fuck you, this is good Mary!"
ER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's really good. You gave her a little halo? Love that. I always thought of Mary Magdalene in my... I was Catholic but we only really went to church on Sundays, and...well I guess that's when most people go to church, but we'd really only go around Christmas time. And then my dad is Mennonite, so it's kind of like, I was like, I did these Catholic things, but then I'm also...I like the Mennonite side of things too. Like really weird traditions. But I always thought of Mary Magdalene as Jesus'...she's just like his girlfriend.
RC: Oh, that's so funny.
ER: Yeah.
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RC: Thanks for listening to Hopping the Fence, a podcast dedicated to the fringes of the Canadian art scene. If you have an artist that you would like to hear interviewed, would like to correct / fact check a past episode, or would like to chat, feel free to send me a message on Instagram @hoppingthefence, or by email at rebeccaecasalino@gmail.com. If you would like to support this podcast and help me avoid burnout, please visit our Patreon to subscribe. Check out the show notes for more details. If you can’t donate, no worries. Thanks for taking the time to listen. Original artwork for Hopping the Fence by Alex Gregory, original music by Jessica Price Eisner. Thank you so much, bye!
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