B Wijshijer
Hopping the Fence Podcast Transcript - #8, B Wijshijer
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RC: Hello, I’m Rebecca Casalino, and this is Hopping the Fence, a podcast dedicated to talk to artists on the fringes on the Canadian art scene. B Wijshijer is a research-based artist working within digital media and video installation. Wijshijer utilizes online trends and subcultures to deconstruct mediated intimacies and personas on digital platforms.
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Informed by acceleration aesthetics, their work plays with excess and artifice to interrogate the ways in which late capitalism affects our digital lives. Wijshijer received their BFA in Printmaking from OCAD University in 2017 and an MFA from the University of Waterloo in 2020.
Our conversation is recorded in Tkaranto, on the traditional territories of the Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Anishinaabe, and Mississaugas of the New Credit First Nations.
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RC: Hey B!
BW: Hi Rebecca!
RC: How's it goin'?
BW: Good, how are you?
RC: I'm good in my not so sweaty apartment. I'm glad things are cooling down. I don't know about you.
BW: I'm slightly sweaty, I turned off the fan so it wouldn't make any noise.
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RC: Oh no!
BW: It's okay. It's not so bad, it's cooling down a bit.
RC: Cool. So where are you right now?
BW: I'm in Tkaronto, Ontario, also known as Toronto Ontario. I'm in my bedroom, which is also my studio, in a shared apartment in Toronto's fashion district.
RC: Cool. When did you come back from Toronto 'cause you just finished up your MFA at Waterloo right?
BW: Yes. I actually moved to Montreal very briefly... and pandemic... trying to save rent money. And then I moved back to Toronto 'cause that's my home and where I feel most comfortable in my community and art community.
RC: Mhm. Do you want to describe your practice for any listeners not familiar with your work?
BW: Yeah, I consider myself to be post-internet artist. My work is informed by and about internet culture, especially social media and internet subcultures. I make videos that often involve some sort of performance combined with screen recordings of how I interact with online spaces and apps and found footage from YouTubers. I also make installations for my video work to help direct the viewing experience and make the work more interactive. And I have a social media practice that I think of as supplementary to my videos and the persona I am body when I perform. And I have also done some live performance, but they also involve technology and screens.
RC: Mhm. Can you explain your persona to me because I've seen your videos and have been consuming your content, but I feel like I still don't know the whole extreme of like, Shrimpy Chip.
BW: Shrimpy Chip is a persona I developed, actually during my undergrad in my thesis year. But I started it more as an experimentation, and it's kind of this really pared-down enough myself where I really thought about how everyone kind of has their own persona on social media and really trying to hone in on that and overshare, but then at the same time pare myself back. And I try to make it really performative and make it about the performance of being on social media and the idea of creating your own image online.
RC: Yeah and you do it across multiple platforms. How do you see that - I feel like you're creating this universe for your character to exist in. How do you maintain all of that?
BW: I mainly... I use Instagram as a way to keep the persona alive really. So I think of my... Shrimpy Chip would mainly be on YouTube, but then people can interact with them on Instagram daily. I have multiple platforms for Shrimpy Chip. Also as a way for me to explore different platforms in a way that is experimental but also keeps in line with this concept and themes I've developed for myself.
RC: Mhm.
BW: Yeah, really creating the universe to make it more of a real persona, but then also this like strange internet person.
RC: When you say "overshare," how do you think of that from your perspective as an artist existing on social media?
BW: Well I use the archive a lot. So often...I also... on my Instagram, I'll post archived stories from my actual personal finsta.
RC: Mhm.
BW: But I'll only post it a year later so it's detached from myself enough that it becomes Shrimpy Chip at that point where it's no longer me, it's just what I've put out on the internet. And then I can repurpose it in a more disconnected way as like, this is something I put online and it exists in the archive. Like how does this become me? How is this not me in a way? 'Cause I think that even the finsta is performative in that sense where I am not just saying something, I crafted something to show other people. And even though it is more personal, I still I'm trying to present this part of myself in a certain way that's not completely authentic.
RC: Mhm. How did you start your performance practice? Was it always on the Internet or... How did it grow?
BW: It started in printmaking at OCAD in my undergrad. I was drawing these illustrations of these figures wearing... I call it "safety suit." it was just a protective garment that was also transparent so it wasn't completely protective. And then I made the costume for myself and I photographed myself wearing the suit, so I became the illustration. And then I wanted to activate it so I started performing in the suit. And then I realized that performing fit better with what I was trying to do then drawing. I went with that and it escalated into this whole Shrimpy Chip thing, which now I think I can... I'll continue to perform outside of Shrimpy Chip and within it.
RC: How do you decide what's within Shrimpy Chip and what's outside of it as a project?
BW: Yeah, I think that Shrimpy Chip is more about online communication specific to social media. So all of my social media projects would be Shimpy Chip, but then when I'm thinking outside of that, it might be not completely in line with that concept.
RC: Mhm.
BW: But I think Shrimpy could develop and... I also have a music practice which is promoted on Shrimpy Chip, so I think it's funny having Shrimpy Chip having their own personas within a persona and this overlapping, kind of convoluted internet presence.
RC: No, I think that's cool 'cause you can't really tell what's real and what isn't, it's like, is this your practice or is this Shrimpy's practice? And like, who is Shrimpy and who is you?
BW: Yeah, I like having part of it be ambiguous and the idea of everyone really having multiple personas online. Every handle you have a sort of a new part of yourself. Every platform you're on is a version of yourself or a version of your internet persona.
RC: And what's your relationship been with these different platforms, like, as the institutions that they are? Because I noticed that you're critiquing them in a specific way but not in the way that I think other people are just like, "the internet is bad." yours is much more nuanced.
BW: I was drawn to making work about the internet because of how important it was to me growing up and finding community. I'm not trying to put down the internet... well, to a degree, I think that the internet is a really capitalist space and it definitely has hierarchies. Instagram is run by Facebook, which has this whole Monopoly and also YouTube is owned by Google, which again, like Facebook and Google are I think the top company is running the internet and what does that mean for people using it? Especially marginalized folks. And how can community be fostered when it has to exist in the really capitalist space with certain barriers that make it difficult for us?
RC: Mhm.
And what have been some of the barriers that you've come up against in your practice or have you not experienced then personally yet?
BW: I think policing of the body is definitely one. Being AFAB and femme representing, I'm often sexualized buy viewers who just come across my work. So I've been dealing with that in some ways and running my image through image identification software, seeing how it interprets me and also being a southeast Asian person, like how my face is categorized on different platforms.
RC: And are you running your image through, like, Instagram? Or what programs are you checking to see how it's reading your image?
BW: Various things, but I... Sometimes on Facebook when I am flagged for nudity, which I don't really post that much on it, but I'll think of that as research or I've found various free image identification websites that I'll run things through. Or even YouTube when it's flagged and I'll just keep a tab on that. Also, I work with the app FaceApp. I use the gender... It's like a gender swap. And also I'm nonbinary, so seeing how I was identified as a woman or a man and I made a video where I switched my face back and forth until it was completely distorted. Or the app also interpreted my race differently, so when I became a "man" the app made me really dark. But then, when I became a "woman," it made my face much more fair. And seeing how it interprets different ethnicities and genders and why. Who's behind it, how can we use the glitch to uncover these biases?
RC: Do you find yourself leaning into every technology as they come up?
BW: I try to. There's so many different technologies. [Both laugh]. But I tried to push into it far enough that I can uncover something.
RC: Yeah. And have you been on TikTok? I can't remember -
BW: I have a Shrimpy Chip TikTok account. I'm really interested by TikTok. I mainly just playing around with it. And I'll do dance with the, like, hype house. [Both laugh].
RC: I really don't understand Tik Tok. I feel like I missed the boat. My brain just glitches out at this Gen Z kind of app. But how have you been finding the new possibilities? Because it is kind of like Vine but it has this political kind of twist to it which I think lends itself really well to your work.
BW: I think that Gen Z's so cool. And I think that there's so many cool TikTokers out there. I'm still... I feel like I'm already outdated in a way or old where I'm like, "Oh, there's all these cool TikTok teens. How do I break into this in a way that could be art without, I don't know...in a way that's authentic on the app but also can say something new and interesting?"
RC: Yeah, like how to translate your art practice into kind of this new weird form?
BW: Mhm. I'm still interested in it and I would like to do some more thought out TikTok piece.
RC: Do you want to talk a bit about how your work installs in physical spaces versus in digital spaces? Like, with an institutional context or within artist run centres...?
BW: Yeah. In the gallery, it's different than my works naturally because my work exists online. But in the gallery, I like to play with installation and I get to experiment with different ways of viewing, which I think is really interesting. In the past I've used different seating or beds to kind of direct how people will interact with my work and kind of make my own bedroom space or bring the filming space to the gallery. The filming space is my bedroom, [laughs]. And I like interaction so I've made some more interactive installations where people can touch work, and also showing my work on a smaller device like a phone or and iPad I think it's really nice 'cause it makes it more intimate in that way or it recreates the home experience in the gallery.
RC: Mhm.
BW: And outside of the institution it's definitely where my work feels most natural and I think then it's kind of... The work is continuously on going because it's collaborating with the platform in a way, and how any updates to the platform... redesigns on YouTube... how it sits within recommendations and the comment, when people comment on my work, that becomes part of it. But again, the institutions are also important. Like galleries, artist-run centres, it's how I can make money off of my work and also it's what allows me to make a name for myself within the art community.
RC: Mhm.
BW: But I also like being this internet weirdo that people just stumble upon and they're like, "What's this?" I'm not married to the way any of my work is viewed. I think it's fun to have a YouTube video but then how does it exist in the white cube? How does the context change when it's placed beside by other work or how people can interact with it. My thesis exhibition, which will take place sometime in the future post-pandemic, will show my YouTube channel but with... trying to make it more overwhelming, like a bunch of screens playing together at the same time with multiple videos on different devices so that the exhibition will constantly be in motion.
RC: Cool.
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RC: This week’s podcast recommendation is an older episode of The Polyester Podcast called “Live Episode: Wednesday Holmes on How to Show Up for Trans+ People. A special live recording with artists and LGBTQA+ advocate / activist Wednesday Holmes, more commonly known on the internet as @hellomynameiswednesday.
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RC: That reminds me of the filter that you made for Instagram with all the screens.
BW: Yes. That one is... I have two Instagram filters.
RC: Yeah.
BW: The one that you're referring to I believe is Farmers Only, [laughs] which I took as a joke from the farmers only dating app.
RC: Oh my gosh. [Both laugh].
BW: The images in it are taken from farms.
RC: Okay, that makes sense.
BW: Yeah, they are facilities often in southeast Asia or South Asia where there will just be rooms full of computers or phones and they'll have people manually clicking likes on people's social media if they buy likes. So thinking of the currency of social media and the currency of likes and at what expense is popularity or celebrity. Like who's at the other end of that spectrum? The filter's really funny to me because it's on Instagram and some people will use it without knowing what it is. [Both laugh]. But it's like this creepy thing that's kind of cynical in a way where you're taking a photo for Instagram and smiling, but then it's a photo of a like farm.
RC: I think also the idea of likes as a resource that we farm is also hilarious.
BW: It's so weird.
RC: So does your research involve how people are buying likes or this kind of fake social media presence that's blown up? Or are you looking more into genuine personas existing on the internet? I guess there are no genuine personas on the internet, but you know what I mean?
BW: Yeah. Right now, I'm really interested in manipulation online and different layers of performance and what's fake what's real and uncovering truth online. How do you do that? [Laughs].
RC: Yeah. How do you feel being in, and I'm so sorry to say this, a post-truth era, trying to strive for truth on the internet?
BW: It's a weird place but there's so many different routes to research and think about, so it's a really exciting time where software's been evolving constantly. Websites and just how people interact with it, it's changing so rapidly. Right now, I'm researching different bots online, and there's this porn bought epidemic on Instagram, which is already kind of calmed down more so than it was a year ago.
RC: Mhm.
BW: But that was kind of weird for me where it was this really brief moment and now it's like, has that moment passed? Is it already not contemporary anymore?
RC: Do you want to talk about the origins of Shrimpy Chip and how you started this project and came up with the name?
BW: I made the account at the end of 2016. I think mainly because I didn't really think of it as an art practice at the very beginning. I wanted to experiment. I started having more relationships online and then I was kind of just thinking about how that actually has been my life for a really long time and I wanted to explore it more. And then I started making YouTube videos, again, just to experiment and play with performance more. But I was still... The work I was showing in galleries and the work I was submitting was still really print-based.
RC: Mhm.
BW: When I did my masters, I showed my advisors my digital practice and they were so supportive. And that gave much more confidence to continue that. And it's also what I was mainly excited about.
RC: Mhm.
BW: The Shrimpy Chip name is based on the snack Shirmpy Chip. I'm Indonesian, so shrimp chips have a personal connection to me since there in Indonesian snack. I wanted something, a name that would really honour myself as a marginalized individual, but also I and fairly just connected to my ethnic origins, so I thought that it was interesting to use Shrimpy Chip as a way that ties me to southeast Asian culture. But I also feel disconnected to it so it is already a persona in a way from the beginning.
RC: Mhm.
BW: But also it felt personal to me. So thinking of intimacy and disconnection and now I feel so close to the name. Also thinking of early internet handles that aren't anyone's name that are just like some object people like.
RC: Mhm, mhm. Like early Hotmail handles?
BW: Yeah. Or like a Tumblr handle.
RC: What was your early internet start? What did it look like? Were you on Tumblr or Myspace?
BW: I was on both of those. At the beginning, I actually had a Piczo.
RC: Nice. [Both laugh].
BW: I think I had that in grade four or five. When I was really young. And I'd just share sparkly graphics. I'd add a sparkly cursor to my page and scroller bar, and I'd have a guest book. I started sneaking onto chat rooms really early on in my childhood, and I'd have to learn how to delete my search histories so that my mom wouldn't get mad at me for going on these chat rooms.
RC: So how did you end up in printmaking for your undergrad? I feel like printmaking is so old school and then to move into digital art and video is a very big shift.
BW: Yeah, it's really strange to me as well honestly. [Laughs]. I started in drawing and painting at OCAD actually.
RC: Mhm.
BW: And then switched to printmaking. I really like process-based work and learning these different tools to make a work. But then eventually it got kind of limiting where I had to stay with this specific medium and by the time I had my undergrad thesis, I was doing photography and the beginning of my performance work where I posed in costumes and doing some textile based work. So I think I'm definitely more multidisciplinary than sticking to one specific medium. I'll probably make screen prints eventually but I don't necessarily consider myself a printmaker.
RC: Mhm.
BW: Except for I guess videos are still multiples.
RC: Yeah. Digital multiples for sure.
BW: Yeah.
RC: In terms of costuming, because you said that that's kind of how you got started... You did that drawing and then you created the outfit. What drew you to making that, the physical object, and getting into these costumes?
BW: I just wanted to give life to my drawings and the characters I created. At first I was drawing and I was adding text two kind of animate it, but that wasn't getting me as far as I wanted to go. I just think working with the body is much more natural to me and creating skits and kind of reimagining life in a time-based kind of art practice.
RC: Mhm. And how do you come up with the skits? Are they based off of your real life experience or are you driving from theoretical texts?
BW: Both and also responding to internet culture and what already out. I'm really inspired by YouTubers and for a lot of my work I've looked at what is already out on YouTube, what are the trends and what is my take on it.
RC: Yeah.
BW: So I've done a few videos on selfies and using different apps and recording it and then editing it to kind of give a new meaning.
RC: What is the process like from creating the raw video and then taking into post? Because you almost have this collage attitude in some of your videos. I'm just curious how you approach the editing process.
BW: Yeah, a lot of the work is... I would think of it as a video collage. And editing is super important in my practice. That's why I don't really consider myself a strict performance artist, because it's always being mediated by technology or I'll like scramble it around. So I'll come up with a basic script that I'll follow and then I'll just fill in for a really long time so I have as much footage as possible. I'll often fill multiple times and then the editing I feel like is where it really comes alive. The FX are really important to my work and using green screen and cutting things together so that you're very aware of it being outside of IRL [laughs] and into the zone where it becomes very digital. And the digital process is very much a part of what I'm saying.
RC: Mhm. And are you performing in your bedroom and filming there, or are you going in setting up in a studio?
BW: I am generally performing in my bedroom or when I had my own space to myself, I perform in my living room or dining room or bathroom [both laugh]. I filmed one video in a studio 'cause I was collaborating with someone who had a studio, or who had access to a studio.
RC: Yeah.
BW: And I filmed one, my Chatroulette video I filmed in the studio that I had at University of Waterloo.
RC: And do you find your practice changes when you're in the studio versus when you're at home?
BW: The time that I did the collaborative work with Justin Atkins in a studio, it was fairly difference to my process in my bedroom. Also because I was collaborating with someone. But it was just like, "Well, I get to use this nice equipment and nice lighting, that's cool." and I used a better camera. I usually just record on my webcam and then set up a little space in my bedroom and it actually works for my concept. Doing social media work which is generally filmed in a bedroom or the bedroom aesthetic of early YouTubers who are just setting up their camera on their bed.
RC: Yeah.
BW: But also it is really helpful because I don't need a studio. I can just film wherever.
RC: How is your practice being affected by the pandemic? Because I know you had to defend your thesis over Zoom. How did your work translate like that?
BW: I was so lucky where since everything was already on YouTube, it didn't really change it. The gallery exhibition's postponed, so I didn't get that as a finale to my degree. And I also had one show cancel that was going to be in a physical space. But that I also had a few shows that were going to be physical. They were just going to be video screenings. So that translated really well to an online screening. One was on Twitch, which was fine. My work was already just going to be streamed from my YouTube video so it worked out well. I'm really lucky that my work is already ready to be viewed on someone's laptop and it actually is meant to be doing that.
RC: Yeah. And I think also the project that you have just started, the Instagram surfers it's also feeding into this idea that your work and your practice does really fit really well on the internet for collaboration. So how has that been going and how did you come up with that idea?
BW: So surfers, I'm inspired by early internet collaborative groups called professional internet Surfer groups or clubs, which were just these groups of artists who would find work online and post it on a blog. Just fun graphics or GIFs. And then they'd remix it or comment on it or sometimes post their own original work on these blogs.
RC: Mhm.
BW: And I thought that was really exciting and I wanted to make a newer version of it, since these were in the early 2000s mainly. And how that could work for more emerging artists. And also I just really wanted to have more of a dialogue with net artists. Going to school in Waterloo, I was the only net artist in my year so I wanted to build more of a community around that. And just a fun experimental platform that people could just join on without feeling too much pressure. And seeing what else can come from that. And also supporting net artists who are people of colour and queer and having a more comfortable space to produce work.
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RC: Thanks for listening to Hopping the Fence, a podcast dedicated to the fringes of the Canadian art scene. If you have an artist that you would like to hear interviewed, would like to correct / fact check a past episode, or would like to chat, feel free to send me a message on Instagram @hoppingthefence, or by email at rebeccaecasalino@gmail.com. If you would like to support this podcast and help me avoid burnout, please visit our Patreon to subscribe. Check out the show notes for more details. If you can’t donate, no worries. Thanks for taking the time to listen. Original artwork for Hopping the Fence by Alex Gregory, original music by Jessica Price Eisner. Thank you so much, bye!
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